Transcript: Projects and Policy (CA Climate Policy Summit 2023)

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Audience (00:00):

In the beginning.

TCC Staff (00:02):

Okay. So, uh, session of the afternoon here on projects and policy. Uh, a announcement from the AC crew is that they’re working on it. And our apologies for the ongoing HVAC challenges. We have a little sort of demo of global warming happening right here in the El Dorado room, so we can all participate. So if you guys could please, uh, take your conversations outside or have a seat, and we will go ahead and get started. We can all sing some Tracy Chapman maybe, uh, <laugh>. What’s that? Okay, we’re gonna go ahead and get started. Please have a seat. Um, thanks again for, looks like we got a pretty consistent crowd here. And Diablo, uh, appreciate your sticking through to the final presentation on projects and policy. Uh, don’t really have much I can say to encapsulate Artie, uh, <laugh> for anyone. The, the unforgettable always. Ardi Arian, the President and CEO of Renewable America will moderate this final session. So welcome, Ardi. Thank you. Coming on up.

Ardi Arian (01:19):

Thank you.


Okay, so it’s a pleasure to moderate this panel and, um, I’m gonna start with a couple of slides for myself to present a little bit what I think about yeah, projects and policies of the future and the topic, great for the future. And then basically after me, Joanne, from with Clean Power Alliance will have her slides and make a presentation, and Teresa will follow. And then, um, the last panelist is Jin. And, uh, we basically encourage all of you, there must be carts on the table. Please let us know if they are not, and there must be pens. So we have a Q and a session, which we would love you to have as many questions as possible. So let me start with my slides. Um, so building the grid for the future, that’s my topic as well. So I wanna start with one questionnaire here for all of you.


I know it’s pretty late, it’s the last panel, so hopefully that it’s kind of putting some good thoughts out. I have here together a couple of important inventors, and I’m assuming that we have this DeLorean from Back to the Future, and we would take all of these inventors and bring them into the year of 2023. And my question to you, which of those three inventors, is it Graham basically the first phone, or was it be matney or will be Edison? The versatility? Which of those would be most surprised? So, um, that’s my topic here in terms of what and how they would be feeling if they see what has happened with the invention. So any calls who, who KU is. Okay. Thank you. Okay, so finally, <laugh>. Okay, so, um, we have basically three needs and targets identified. One is, I think all of you are aware about that 60% by 2030 and the decarbonization by 2045.


Um, also one of the important topics is decentralized and dispatchable clean power, which is only going to work with energy storage, but our differentiated viewers here, we are more towards distributed, connected, less than transmission connected, which will allow to be decentralized. And that exactly will help us to be, um, easier going through any psps events, public safety or shutoff events, or recovery after a disaster. So that’s our things that we are addressing, and this is the way how we are doing this. Sorry for mad issue I guess here, but basically what I’m a full believer in and the way how we set up the company, the transmission all the time is needed being that impactful for those needs that I just explained and listed. The grid transition that we are talking about would be more on the distribution side. And the distribution level is an untouched potential today where we can deploy a lot of new resources and we will also have the load increase on the distribution end as well.


So EV chargers, all the electrification is happening on DG level. So this is basically us and that’s a, a map showing what the project pipeline looks of, how many projects we have. We have as of today, 40 projects and about 600 megawatt hour of energy storage. That is what is just the beginning of the potentials and the distribution lines. And we can’t do much more than that. There is a huge multiplier. So I encourage you all to just take a look at our website and, and get those updates. And basically, that’s pretty much it and I wanna handle it over <inaudible>.

Joanne O’Neill (04:41):

All right, good afternoon everyone. I know that we are the only thing standing between you and beer and wine, so I apologize, but we will try and make it entertaining here. So I’m Joanne O’Neill. I’m the director of customer programs at the Clean Power Alliance. And I’m gonna take a minute to just really quick, uh, talk about what CPA is for those of you who are not aware, and then wanna dive into the need for clean energy resiliency and also the projects that we’re working on called Power Ready Program, which is really a great segue for anyone who is in the room during the last session. We’re talking about microgrids. This is a community based approach to is clean power. And so partners, we have 30 communities, three cities to soon to be 33 throughout Los Angeles and Ventura Counties, along with unincorporated LA and Ventura Counties, which means we serve about 3 million customers.


So, you know, with that is a lot of excitement in terms of the diversity of a region, uh, the volume of customers, but also a lot of responsibility, obligation to serve them all and to really engage with those communities. So as, uh, the, uh, ccca who provides service at 3 million Cal Southern California residents, that makes us the largest CCCA in state. Um, I think we have some fellthe room, um, and also the fourth largest electricity provider in the state behind, uh, pg e s se, l e d wp. Um, but one of the things we’re extremely proud about, um, in addition to some of the programs that we offer them I’m gonna talk about today, um, is that we’re actually the provider of a hundred percent clean energy in the nation. Um, so really, yeah, thank you. Um, a really great achievement.


Um, hopefully we hold onto that title for very long. Um, and we have many others join us. And so, uh, at CPA, one of the things that actually brought me to the organization is a really strong commitment to, you know, as a not-for-profit public entity to take in that excess revenue and reinvest in our communities. And so we have through our local programs for a clean energy future, a commitment to do just that. And we bucket it into three key areas, um, building and transportation, electrification, local procurement, and then what I’m we talking about today, resiliency and grid management. Um, and so again, this, uh, whole day, um, has really been kind of making the case for me in terms of the need for resiliency. But all of you have probably, um, don’t need to be reminded that we are having more frequent, unexpected power outages, um, wildfire threats, public safety, power, shutoffs, extreme weather grid stress are all kind of combining, um, against us.


So wanna maybe take a moment to have a little bit of audience interaction here. So raise your hand if you have ever experienced power outage. All right, unfortunately, that’s, I think everyone, and you know, hopefully that was a nuance, but more than likely it impacted, you know, the way you live, access to internet, heat and cooling. Um, spoiled impact our, think about you other times, entities. I want you to raise your hand if you would like during an outage for the following customers to have power fire stations, police stations, uh, emergency operations centers, cooling centers, right? Um, the, these are critical infrastructure. And what’s happened is over the last several years, in order to be resilient, in order to have power, they’ve resorted to diesel generators. So that’s g HG emissions, that’s poor air quality. Um, and it’s kind of going in the opposite direction as we’d like.


And you know, what we found is it’s not because they really like diesel curators, right? They, they want to make sure that these critical infrastructures are available for their communities. And so, kind of with this in mind, we went out and talked to our community, and, you know, what we heard from our local governments, from the municipalities is that they need electricity to run these critical operations, right? There isn’t, uh, a choice about whether that fire station can operate or whether that operation center can be, um, available to a community. Um, so they’re going out and they’re buying those generators, but they’d much rather be using clean energy backup. But what are the challenges? Um, you wouldn’t be surprised to know that, uh, financing, uh, availability funding is one of the challenges. Another challenge is just the time it takes to, uh, uh, identify projects, develop them, procure them in the government setting, and finally, the technical expertise to develop a microgrid or a system that can be islanded.


And so with all of this in mind, um, our team here at CPA kind of stepped back and thought about, you know, what can we do to help, um, as a member of our community, how can we be part of this solution and ensure that there is clean energy backup opportunities for these want more? Because that work when it would, um, probably get a, a handful of, you know, properties, a handful of customers, communities, resiliency, it’s not scalable. So as we’ve been thinking about this, it’s also not just how do we, uh, help with enable resiliency, how do we do that, um, using clean energy, but also how do we scale this into something that we can replicate through our territory, and then hopefully others can, can, um, take part in as well? And so we came up with what’s called our power ready program.


And for anyone, uh, familiar with our programs with the word power, and it’s terribly confusing. But, uh, beyond that, the, the word here is, is really great. And so what is this program? So again, thinking back to how, how do we scale this? Um, so the idea is that it’s a resiliency program, as I mentioned, using solar power, um, and energy storage systems that are capable of islanding to provide critical load, um, critical, uh, load services during a blackout, but also these systems, um, the other 360 days of the year that is a, a great battery that could be leveraged. And so one of the things that was really important to us is that we took the opportunity to ensure that those batteries, and so we basically oversight the, um, always a portion of it for that critical load resiliency. But the remainder of the majority is operating an ongoing basis for grid management.


And what that means is it’s discharging during high price times, which allows a system to be much more, um, economical and help with grid reliability and reducing prices for everyone. Um, obviously the member agency, our local governments get the benefit of having that resiliency. Um, and to make it easier for them, we are kind of handling all the, the process for them. So we’re contracting with the developer, we’re making sure that it’s own, uh, that it’s operated and built to the right specification, et cetera. Um, I put this slide in here and, and I regret it because this is the most like wonky slide ever where I’m talking about PPAs ands and leases. Um, so I, I think that the takeaway here is that it’s really a three-way agreement between us CPA, the, um, the member agency, the city government, the county government, and the developer.


And it’s really important that those three entities are all on board, all engaged and all, uh, kind of moving in the same direction for this to be possible. And, uh, you know, I think that that’s really powerful as we think about the benefits of these type of systems, which, you know, it is isn’t just about the city government, it’s not just about us. It’s not just about the community. It’s how these, all these kind of entities can work together to, to have mutual benefits from the same system. So, you know, what does this city or county get? They get the clean energy back, the turnkey system. Um, we’ve designed this so it’s at no cost of them, um, both from a, they won’t pay more in electricity, but they also don’t pay anything out of pocket to get the system. Um, so they have that critical load, uh, established and backed up.


And then they also, you know, one of the things that we heard through listening to them is they didn’t want to necessarily be responsible for all the ongoing operations and maintenance. For many of them, they don’t have this type of system. So that is all covered for them. Another important aspect is the community. So what did they get out of this? Well, they get the, the critical infrastructure, right? That can withstand, uh, power outage, but they also get that enhanced grid re resiliency and reliability, um, and hopefully the lower emission, because we’re not running those diesel generators. What do, uh, CPA and its customers, sorry for the formatting there. Um, we get an opportunity to financial. We have reduced procurement costs associated with leveraging those batteries as that resource, as I mentioned, discharging it during those high price time today. And then finally, you know, this is just another way for us to get back to the community and, and reinvest. So that is the power ready project. I’m happy to talk more about it, but I’ll hand the floor over to Teresa. Thank you.

Teresa Cheng (11:57):

All right, good afternoon. Um, as already mentioned, mine is Teresa Chang. I’m a senior campaigns representative for the Sierra Club. Before coming to the Sierra Club, I worked for over a decade as a labor and community organizer, mostly in environmental justice communities. And so I’m really excited to share day about a partnership between Sierra Club and the California. And you have a California campaign, and the Regenerate California campaign has a vision where our state runs on 100% clean energy and we shut down polluting fossil fuel infrastructure with a priority of first priority retirement in environmental justice communities that have borne the greatest brunt of the climate crisis.


So just to talk a little bit about who we are, regenerate is a diverse coalition of five membership based organizations across California. Like I mentioned, it includes Sierra Club seha, the Center for Community Action and Environmental Justice, the Central Alliance, uh, central Coast Alliance, United for Sustainable Economy, and then longtime community organizing, uh, institution communities for better environment. Like I mentioned, we are a very diverse coalition. We represent members that range from frontline community members in the Inland Empire, pushing back against the encroachment of Amazon warehouses, community activists, and Wilmington, east Oakland, and even, uh, college professors and, um, scientists on the west side of Los Angeles. And so it’s really in this diversity that our coalition has strength to, uh, push for this 100% clean energy future. And I think a lot of the folks today, and a lot of the smart folks in the room here have talked about all of these emerging clean energy solutions that we can use to power our grid. And what we really wanna uplift is as we move to 100% clean financial high down by how we shutting down also fuel infrastructure and shutting down gas plants in a way that centers equity and brings immediate relief to, uh, the communities that have faced the worst pollution from these, uh, gas plants.


So just to take a step back, I heard earlier this morning someone referred to our grid as a renewable grid, right? In California, we’re so lucky to have this renewable grid, but if we actually look at our power mix, almost 40% of our electricity still comes from fossil fuels. It still comes from gas plants.


And, uh, I just wanted to take a second. I know most folks in the room, you know, know the basics about why gas plants are polluting, but I really wanted to stress both the climate and human costs of our continued reliance on gas. Um, first of all, when we burn gas, it produces carbon dioxide, which warms our climate. And actually, uh, 16% of all of California’s greenhouse gas emissions come just from the power sector. They come just from the gaslands that we rely on in the state. Furthermore, gas infrastructure is dangerous, and it’s also polluting. It also warms the climate. When methane leaks directly from storage facilities or pipelines into the atmosphere, it has a six times worse climate warming effects than carbon dioxide. And I think most folks in here, remember the Notorious 2015 Aliso Canyon leak, um, the gas storage facility in Southern California that leaked over one of methane largest reported methane leak in US history, and was reported to actually have a larger carbon footprint than the BP oil spill a few years higher.


And in terms of economic risks, I don’t have to dwell on this one. I think anyone in here who has gas appliances felt the pain this last winter, uh, with your gas bills. Wholesale gas prices are extremely volatile. And as we try to meet our SB 100 goals, any new investments that we make and get infrastructure risk being a stranded asset that we’re just wasting repair money on. And then lastly, but perhaps most importantly, gas plants are toxic to the communities in which they’re cited. When gas plants, uh, run, they release harmful chemicals including NOx, sulfur, and mercury. NOx is a precursor to both smog and particular particulate matter, which is not only linked to higher rates of asthma, but bronchitis, lung cancer, heart disease. And there’s a direct association between living near a gas plant or in a community where there’s a gas plant cited and increased, uh, visits to the emergency room for asthma attacks. And so if we look at gas, California one 60 gigawatt city, and we are actually the third largest state in the nation for gas generation only surpassed by Texas, and Florida. And if we take a closer look into where those gas plants are located, and we layer on both Callen Viro screen data and look at the top 25% of communities that are ranked as the most disadvantaged, and then layer the the new White House environmental justice screening tool. On top of that, over 70% of gas plants in California are located in disadvantaged communities.


So as you can see, our reliance on gas has real human costs, and it’s really born on the backs of working class communities and communities of color in California.


I know folks are probably thinking, but eresa, the sun doesn’t always shine. The wind doesn’t always blow. We need gas, right? We need a fuel that we can plug in and we need electricity. Well, if we actually look at last year’s heat wave, our historic nine day heat wave, we actually found that gas plants were actually not that reliable. And when we needed them the most, that is almost exactly coincident when with their highest levels of curtailment. That’s exactly when they were breaking down. And if you look at, uh, the, the blue line and you see where it hits the highest peak, 6,000, I’m sorry, about 50,000 megawatts of demand, that was the day we made history when electricity demand in California went through the roof. You will see that directly coincides with when gas curtailments were almost 6,000 megawatts, right? And so for the enormous human and climate costs of gas plants running in our communities, their supposed reliability value is just not sufficient.


And so what does it mean when on, uh, the day of our highest electricity demand, 6,000 megawatts of gas does not show up on the grid? Well, it means that we scour everywhere for every last megawatt to keep the lights on. And so, uh, what we saw this last summer was what we had seen the two summers prior, right? The governor released an emergency order and he said, throw all the rules out the window, run everything, um, run diesel bugs, whether it’s in a disadvantaged community or not. And we will not, uh, we will not only compensate folks for running their diesel bugs, they’ll be eligible under the emergency load reduction program, but we’ll, we’ll also lift all emissions limits. And so the harms of relying on gas, which is disproportionately cited in environmental justice and reliability, compounds the harms of communities. And lastly, I actually won’t won’t talk too much about this cuz I think so many of the folks today have talked, uh, so eloquently about all the clean energy solutions that we need to rely on.


I wanna stress that, uh, building up local clean energy, uh, resources is incredibly important in, in terms of being able to retire gas plants, especially in transmission constrained areas and local capacity regions. And I think that there’s a lot of promise in <inaudible>. The California Energy Commission talked about it a bit this morning, and, uh, there’s really interesting studies about how when offshore wind really takes off is exactly when peak demand also soars, right? It’s in these late August evenings, um, around 6:00 PM when, when demand also peaks. And so I think that is, uh, a really exciting venue that we wanna continue pushing on. And then I just wanted to end by talking about, uh, a little bit of how our Regenerate advocacy works in action. So last year, the California Air Resources Board released their 2022 scoping plan. They released a draft in, uh, May, and scoping plan is a 20 year blueprint that maps how our state will get to 100% carbon neutrality.


And we were really shocked to see if that their plan proposed building out 10 gigawatts of new fossil gas capacity. Now that’s equivalent to roughly 100 new peaker plants across the state. And so we did letters, sent several of those letters, uh, we lobbied more than half of the core board members, and we found that it wasn’t actually moving the needle. And so in less than a month, regenerate, along with the California Environmental Justice Alliance, mobilized over 200 frontline community members and activists from across the state to pack the CARB board, the CARB board meeting room. Um, and there were folks from San Diego, from the Central Valley until 70. He had suffered from toxic pollution from gas plants and other environmental hazards in their community. Less than 30 days after that board action, uh, the governor released a letter and directed CARB to eliminate all new gas capacity from the scope plan.


And so I, what I really just wanna impress from that, uh, story is that we have so many brilliant people in this room that have so many good ideas, and we really need to build the broadest Big 10 coalitions and do the grassroots organizing to bring power to those ideas, power to our demands. And we really need to center both equity and organizing, because I firmly believe that if it wasn’t for those folks who live in ASIN to gas plants, going directly to state regulators and forcing them to hear about the consequences of these actions on them in their communities, we would, we would be seeing new gas build out today here in California. And so, I know I said I was gonna close out, but I swear that I, I really am closing out with this. The most important venue that we engage in, uh, right now is actually the C P C Public Utilities Commission.


We just won a watershed, uh, decision a couple months ago with the support of a lot of the folks in this room. We got a 30 million metric ton limit by 2030 for the, for the, uh, electric sector that smashes the emission in the electric sector by almost half in seven years. That’s extraordinary. And we also want a commitment from the PUC to develop a gas plant retirement scenario to actually plan for how we’re gonna retire gas. And so we have a long road ahead and, uh, if there’s one thing you take away from this presentation, I think it’s just that no, the Regenerate Coalition is really eager to partner with a lot of the folks in this room, clean energy, uh, companies, policy advocates, that the only way that we’re gonna chart an equitable path forward is if we’re able to align and, uh, actually fight together and, and organize and give help to some of these regulators, right, who have a really hard job ahead of them. So thank you so much.

Audience (21:26):

Good luck.

Jin Noh (21:27):

Thank you. Thank you. I was wondering whether I should go jackets off, but it’s, it got cooler in here, so,


All right. Welcome to, no, I’m my director for the California Energy Storage Alliance. Thank you career for inviting me to speak here today. Um, you know, just brief background of, of CESA, um, we’re a big tent organization. We’re a trade association representing, you know, all types of energy storage systems. So that’s, you know, developers to manufacturers behind the meter in front of the meter. So we’re looking at customer side versus utility scale, uh, transmission distribution, uh, lithium, non lithium. So we have a broad membership. Our, our goal is really to advance the, uh, the role of energy storage in achieving our decarbonization goals. And so, you know, I think it’s not too much more to be set about, uh, the history of storage. You know, storage is starting to play a, a big role, uh, uh, in decarbonizing our grid. It plays a critical role in being able to integrate all the great renewable energy that we’re generating from solar, wind, geothermal ability to, to handle all the, the challenging aspects of operating the grid.


And I, I highlighted that because, you know, I think to Teresa’s point, how the C P C is really taking major action to, uh, uh, you know, procure more and more clean energy resources to decarbonize that grid. And when we look at it from a long term perspective through 2045, these are really unprecedented build rates that we, uh, uh, need to undergo to achieve that. You know, we’re talking at least for the battery storage, you know, two gig thewas of storage built every year through 2045. And we’ve never really done that. Maybe last year we started adding, you know, a two gigawatts, but it’s basically sustaining that pace, uh, all the way until 2045. And that has been reflected in, uh, the, the, the, the backlog or queue of projects that are seeking to, uh, interconnect onto our grid. And so the grid, the chart on the left is showing, uh, how much the, the blue is on not, but, and really, uh, uh, highlighting some concern that we’re not gonna achieve our goals.


Um, because the inner study process to safely and lively, uh, connect to the grid has taken a long time. And this is all, uh, data recently from Lawrence Berkeley National Lab. So credit to them, and that the graph on the right is showing how, uh, the, the interconnection study timelines are, are just increasing and increasing. And every project that’s going into the queue today has a built-in assumption that it’s gonna take, you know, uh, six, eight years to, to connect to the grid. And so if we’re trying to achieve our 2045 goals, let alone our 2030 goals, this is a, a major challenge that we need to address. Um, but I didn’t wanna talk about transmission. I wanted to talk about how this presents an opportunity for us to not only, uh, build our grid, uh, using, you know, solar and storage resources, um, at the transmission level, but also locally at the distribution level.


Um, and, but the, the challenge that we face, uh, a lot of times, uh, and the work that I do on behalf of our members is, uh, the, the opportunity for us to develop locally faces a lot of challenges. Um, and I think a lot of that ties to the, the regulatory frameworks and policies that have been set up so that we try to put, you know, in front of the meter storage, uh, uh, on the same level playing field as behind the meter storage. Um, and that presents challenges when it comes to RA resource adequacy, capacity, valuation, um, and RA capacity. Uh, you know, this is, this is, you know, being sure that we have sufficient supply resources on the grid to meet our load forecast. And, um, and, and this, I think this is a critical, uh, uh, value stream for really to not have to procure as much resources, um, and to actually meet their needs, um, on, on a long term basis.


But the challenges with, with behind the meter storage, local and distribution storage, is that we don’t necessarily have the constructs to, uh, highlight how these resources, you know, could leverage the built environment, um, provide value in being set closely to loads so they don’t have to leverage as much of the infrastructure and some lines where, Hey, we need, uh, all these transmission lines to be able to bring power from the desert to load pockets. Um, that’s gonna take a lot of time to, to build that infrastructure up. And so why not be able to cite our generation of storage resources locally to address that? And so there’s a, uh, a lot of challenges in terms of even how we measure behind the meter storage when, uh, a lot of these resources could be directly measured. There’s all these capabilities built in, into the inverters, built into the battery systems to directly measure how they perform, but we don’t have that type of construct in place.


And the, the big point I wanted to, to raise, um, and highlight here is how, you know, behind the meter storage, uh, has this potential to site closely to customer load, provide onsite customer value when it comes to bill savings, resiliency, but also to address, you know, system wide needs and supply needs. Um, but the constructs that we’ve developed is if we’re trying to put behind the meter storage on the same level playing field as in front of meter storage, is, uh, we build in this expectation that, hey, these behind the meter storage systems have to be able to provide power all the way to the entire system. And I think that really loses the value that, uh, these systems could provide in terms of, uh, being able to address needs locally when you know for a fact that this power’s not actually gonna be wheeled out to the, the transmission system.


And I’ll highlight this because there’s a lot of loss value, uh, loss value that these resources could provide. Um, because if we look at how behind the <inaudible> consumption onsite load, um, there’s a lot of stranded value when there is not as much, um, onsite customer load, uh, an office or a school on a weekend doesn’t, has very minimal load. And we haven’t, uh, created the, the frameworks in place to be able to, uh, leverage that capacity that could be delivered, um, during heat waves. Um, in the most recent heat waves, we have these essentially set idle, uh, because there was no evaluation in place for these systems. And I thought, you know, one, uh, interesting analogy, um, that I was trying to draw up as I was driving up here, um, is how nonsensical it is to expect that, you know, battery behind the meter battery systems are, uh, should be studied to be able to, you know, deliver a capacity to Southern California, for example, even though we know for a fact that the heart’s gonna be consumed locally, is my wife gave me a very simple exercise, uh, simple problem to solve, which was, you know, she had a, a wedding coming up in, in Los Angeles, and she told me to book a flight, uh, to get there.


And so for me, I found the, the nearest airport to where she needed to go. I knew what time she needed to get there. I, um, Ontario was the destination airport. And I, in this stupid cost minimization exercise that I did, booked her a flight, I went to Phoenix, laid over for three hours and then came to Ontario, which was, and she was, she me a book, you know, she expected this to be a one hour flight and, um, she spent seven hours that she could have spent driving instead. And so I, I, I draw that analogy because it’s kind of similar to, to the, the construct that we’ve, uh, set up through our regulatory policies and methodologies in place where we have this expectation that behind the meter local storage is able to wheel power to the transmission system, so that in theory it could, you know, serve the powers actually be consumed local, we should, you know, value, uh, these resources as such.


And then the last thing I wanted to highlight was to really realize the potential for the behind the meter storage facilities to be aggregated into virtual power plants is, um, we gotta address the interconnection issue. So I know transmission interconnection is this whole other set of problems on the distribution side. It it still presents challenges as well. And, you know, for distributed resources, I think when all very standardized systems, uh, uh, you know, residential and energy metering systems, you know, below 30 kw, um, we’re getting to a place where utilities are performing a lot better on, on this front. But as we develop larger systems, more complex systems, um, utilities performance is really not, you know, standing up to par here. And so we need to really think holistically about how do we streamline this process, standardize the process, um, and think through ways that, uh, um, we can really facilitate a, a plug and play infrastructure. So with that, um, I’ll conclude. Thank you.

Ardi Arian (28:50):

Okay. So thanks to all analysts and great. We learned so much from each of them. So that’s the q and a session. Anyone ready with carts that we can read, talk about questions, get some answers? Oh, you wanna stay up and have questions if the cards are not so useful for you. Okay.

Audience (29:14):

Question I always have is how to mobilize the support for these things when you need it across all of the players we go.



Teresa Cheng (29:25):

Yeah, I mean, can you hear me a, in terms of how we mobilize support around clean energy solutions, and, uh, this really struck me because right before the final scoping plan was approved last December, uh, we did a toxic tour, which is a tour, uh, usually led by a local community group or an environmental justice group with a decision maker around, uh, different environmental pollutants in, in the community. And we had invited, uh, the chair of the California Air Resources Board, lean Randolph to come on the fire. And at the end of the boxing tour, she asked us, well, what are you guys doing to make sure more solar comes online? You know, there are so many nips that are fighting against these solar farms. What are you doing to, uh, to make sure that this stuff gets built so that we can retire fossil fuels or decreased gas generation?


And you know, I, I think it was a tough question, but I think what we really need to do is pair more directly the clean energy build out with the retirement of fossil fuel resources. So something that we are pushing for at the, the Public Utilities Commission is that in the development of their procurement framework or procurement program that they’re developing, that they don’t just put out orders, uh, for clean energy procurement and, and, and just say, you know, boat surfing entities have to now procure 11 and a half gigawatts, uh, of clean energy, or in this last decision you have to procure four gigawatts of clean energy, but that they’re actually intentional about, intentional about directing that procurement and may have procurement orders so that those would most likely facilitate the retirement of fossil fuel facilities. And I think that the clear line that we can draw between clean energy buildout and fossil fuel retirement is gonna actually help us organize those communities to come out and support those clean energy projects.


Otherwise, it is, it’s very difficult right? To, to turn out folks, uh, who come from working class communities who might be working more than two jobs sometimes to say, you should come out and go to the city council meeting and support this solar farm. Right? Or you should go, uh, I don’t know. I guess certainly all these processes, it’s much harder to have people turn out that if we can say supporting this means that air pollution will be improved in your neighborhood. I think linking those two things will, um, actually make organizing easier around, uh, well, right now is, is sort of wonky. Right.

Ardi Arian (31:29):

Okay. Anyone else from the panel wanna address a question? Okay, next question. Eight.

Audience (31:43):

Go ahead. Uh, in your program you described for, for a cpa, um, could you also work with, uh, a c of the Bay Area? Cause they, they have a <INAUDIBLE> program project collaborate, PPA that was out sites you’re familiar with working?

Joanne O’Neill (31:59):

Yeah, great question. Um, yes, we, we collaborate, um, I think I wanna say CE and, uh, PCE share best practice. I think what’s what’s great is each of us is taking a slightly different approach, and I think that’s in response to what we’re hearing from our communities and, and the local needs, but then sharing that information and then hopefully, you know, I think it’s all of our intention that this is the first of, of many of these types of rounds of projects. Um, and, and so we’re definitely sharing information, sharing best practices, learning from one another. Um, that’s what I, I think has been really great about kinda how the CCAs collaborate with one another.

Ardi Arian (32:29):

Okay, thanks. Any more questions?

Audience (32:39):

Um, where would, I dunno if that’s like closer that five board?

Joanne O’Neill (32:53):

Yeah, I’ll take a crack at that. And full disclosure, I’m the program person, not the energy procurement burden. Um, but uh, our board actually on last Thursday, uh, just, uh, approved us to sign our first long duration storage contract. Um, so I think that comes online 2026. So we’re really excited about what that that means for the future. And certainly we’ve got a, a team of a very smart dedicated people who are working around the block to, to make that happen. And, you know, there’s, um, requirements to make it happen, but it’s part of the, the solution and we are a really strong believer in assist sports storage, um, under contract currently. So, and, and more to come hopefully <laugh>.

Jin Noh (33:23):

Yeah. Is this mic on? Yes, yes. Beginning. Yeah. Um, I’ll say long duration storage has a, know, has a role to play in decarbonizing our grid. Um, I know with everyone talks a lot about supply chains. There’s a lot, a big theme here about EDS and the potential for eds, uh, to support our decarbonization goals. And so there is this, you know, major question as to, you know, are we gonna have certainty about, uh, securing enough lithium supplies for even, you know, stationary storage? Um, you know, I think the EVs are gonna gobble all that up. Um, and, you know, the, the auto OEMs have a lot more pricing power to, to buy up all those lithium supplies. And so there is a, uh, a real question as to the long term supply of stationary storages to meet decarbonization wells. Not to say it doesn’t have a, a role to play, uh, so long duration can diversify supply chains. Um, there might be certain attributes around degradation and, and the sort that, uh, uh, folks might find valuable. And then there’s the, the grid value of, hey, for some of the resiliency applications, I was discussion the previous panel, if we need to ride through, uh, a 48 hour or, or 96 hour outage, um, can lithium do that? Um, some cases they might, in many other cases they might not.

Teresa Cheng (34:27):

Yeah, I would just add, I think the development and proliferation of long duration energy storage will be absolutely crucial to be able to retire combustion resources and gas plants. What we’re seeing right now is that, um, you know, there are few other long duration dispatchable options and so, uh, the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, for instance, is looking to instead burn green hydrogen in its existing power plants, um, because it is a dispatchable option for those rare instances where we might have, uh, multiple weeks of like, you know, we’re really hoping and depending on folks like Jin risk, uh, combustion resources like hydrogen or carbon, carbon capture and storage, which I think have sort of questionable success and really don’t do anything to eliminate the toxic pollution that comes from those facilities. So neither hydrogen nor CCS would be able to control for NOx emissions, which is exactly what makes, uh, gas plants in California so equitable.

Joanne O’Neill (35:20):

Maybe I can add one more thing cuz I have a mic. Um, you know, I wanna highlight something that Senator Skinner said earlier that it’s also important that we collectively use less, and maybe I’d modify that I use less specifically during, you know, times that, that there’s peak demand, um, or, or local demand challenges. And so, you know, I think that, you know, it really has to be, uh, an everything solution. And so looking at high meter opportunities, customer side opportunities to reduce u usage, shift usage, um, manage charging, deploy batteries has to all be part of the solution and maybe doesn’t get the, the press as, uh, much as the, the big SX e storage projects, but, um, you know, combined can, can be pretty significant.

Ardi Arian (35:56):

Good. Rolling please.

Audience (35:58):

Course Virginia and others too. So we hear a lot about future batteries, battery tax, solid stake, uh, uh, dying sized, a thousand miles of car batteries, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, how, what do you see as the future of battery technology? Is it going to be Lithia from consultant Sea, or are these other technologies really gonna be a factor within a reasonable amount time?

Jin Noh (36:18):

Yeah, that’s that. I’m, I’m not a fortune teller, that’s hard to say, but future trends, yeah, yeah. Promise I can deliver, you know, certain cost specs and performance. Uh, but until we actually see that realize and, and projects that I can, you know, stand behind or if there’s any like, validation from the insurance community to say, Hey, this technology’s reliable, and we can start incorporating them into to real projects, um, or in a, a consumer vehicle. Um, I think, I think it’s hard to say, I know that’s a non-answer, but, um, I think at least for, for, you know, uh, um, there’s a real risk of, uh, performance failure that, uh, I don’t think any utility or CCCA would, uh, want to face that compliance risk of a, a resource not performing. And so it’s been, it’s been challenging with some of these emerging technologies, uh, to get widespread adoption lithium for foreseeable future.

Ardi Arian (37:09):

Okay. I


See the sign


<laugh>. So we are coming to end. It was a pleasure and I wanna thank all the panelists. It was really great problem.

Audience (37:23):

Okay, thanks everybody. The reception starts in 10 minutes.

Ardi Arian (37:26):

That’s it.

Audience (37:27):

<laugh> got a drink ticket in your, uh, I want.