00:37:30 The Climate Center: https://theclimatecenter.org/about/people/jasmin-ansar/ 00:45:10 The Climate Center: A recording of this webinar, along with all of the presentations, will be shared with everyone that is registered for the webinar. 00:45:14 Dan Kalb: Great set of priorities! 00:45:37 The Climate Center: https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2025-01/Cap_and_Trade_Program_Quick_Facts.pdf 00:51:43 muriel strand: the ecologically sustainable discount rate is zero. 00:54:08 Eoin Madigan: This chart is very misrepresentative of 2024 prices. 00:54:32 Beverly DesChaux: doesn't matter to polluters what price; they just pass costs on to consumers 00:55:42 Barbara Moulton: when polluters pass cost along to consumers, the consumers, especially businesses and industry, choose cheaper renewable sources of energy 00:56:50 The Climate Center: https://theclimatecenter.org/climate-targets/reforming-californias-cap-and-trade-program-policy-brief/ 00:57:01 Alex Nikolai: We can choose cheaper sources of industry in many case, but not in monopolized sectors. 00:57:02 The Climate Center: https://theclimatecenter.org/fossil-fuels/tell-california-leaders-no-more-giveaways-for-big-oil-through-cap-and-trade/ 00:58:19 Chrissy Anecito: We can’t see slides 00:59:07 Beverly DesChaux: I read that $649BILLION was GIVEN to fossil in US last year, $7TRILLION worldwide in 2023 as those industries raked in record profits while gouging the public at the pump and for heating, etc, as we have exceeded 1.5C bringing us closer to tipping points of no return 01:00:07 Judith Borcz: source of those numbers? 01:00:17 Erika Morgan: Bev, here was my similar question and Danny's helpful reply: What is the $$-value, at current auction prices, of the industrial and IOU allowances provided for 'free'? Danny Cullenward 10:21 AM In 2024 the value of allowances allocated to electric utilities was about $2.4 billion; to gas utilities, about $1.2 billion; and to industrial emitters, about $1.3 billion. The utility allocations are totaled across public and private utilities, i.e. not just IOUs. I’ll say more in my remarks today and you can see the data in the forthcoming IEMAC annual report’s chapter on Allowance Allocations and Financial Flows, forthcoming here: https://calepa.ca.gov/2024-iemac-annual-report/ Spreadsheet here: https://calepa.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/2025-01-13-allowances-allocation.xlsx 01:05:55 The Climate Center: https://theclimatecenter.org/about/people/sam-uden/ 01:08:05 Dan Kalb: When AB 32 was about to be passed into law, the leading groups in support had meet with many environmental justice leaders from throughout the state. A key message was that E.J. communities should enthusiastically support AB 32 because when GHGs are reduced, air pollutants and toxic air contaminants generally are reduced as well, so it’s a win-win. The problem has become that cap-and-trade has become a much larger portion of the overall set of AB 32/SB 32 reductions then had ever been imagined early on. So the co-benefits of reducing air pollution have not been realized to the extent that many had hoped and expected. We need to either re-structure cap-and-trade in order to realize the much-needed air quality co-benefits, and/or develop stronger state and regional regulations to achieve these important health-based air quality improvements. 01:11:37 Tijn Croon: Fascinating estimates of $t/CO2e, would there also be a metric that considers social impact that could accompany this? 01:15:26 Judith Borcz: HSR is not estimated to be in operation until 20230-2033, so when might we see these savings? 01:15:48 Judith Borcz: How are these numbers on HSR derived?? 01:15:52 Jonathan Cole: Does the HSR estimate look at reductions for only one year? Once the infrastructure is built, wouldn’t reductions continue over many years with no ongoing infrastructure investment? 01:16:00 Pamela Martinez: Thank you for attending today’s webinar! Please direct your questions to the Q&A feature. 01:17:48 Selden Prentice: I would question government spending on digesters. Here’s a helpful article: https://theequityfund.org/news/despite-renewable-credentials-biogas-is-threatening-our-clean-energy-future/#:~:text=Biogas%20exacerbates%20climate%20change.,global%20warming%20potential%20of%201). 01:19:24 Benjamin Jex: Another important value is on community benefit, for example I was reading that ag communities don’t want dairy digesters prolonging methane fuels in their communities 01:20:07 The Climate Center: Please visit these links to learn more about what Sam was presenting on. - https://www.netzerocalifornia.org/blog/aligning-ggrf-with-the-2022-scoping-plan - https://www.netzerocalifornia.org/blog/analyzing-californias-greenhouse-gas-reduction-fund 01:20:09 Stephanie McGreevy: What is the pushback with dairy digesters? 01:20:14 Rónán Selby-Curran: @Judith Borcz except for Brightline West connecting Rancho Cucamonga to the Victory Valley by 2029. 01:20:44 The Climate Center: https://theclimatecenter.org/about/people/dallas-burtraw/ 01:20:58 Cecilia Palmtag: Thank you Sam! 01:22:00 The Climate Center: https://calepa.ca.gov/2024-iemac-annual-report/ 01:22:02 Andrea Leon-Grossmann: Digesters pollute the air, water and soil, plus they promote factory farms which are not sustainable and are cruel. The oil & gas industry use biogas to greenwash their dirty business model. 01:22:03 Jonathan Cole: @Rónán Selpy-Curran: But Brightline is not funded by GGRF 01:22:34 Dan Kalb: Using C-and-T funds to get additional emission reductions makes perfect sense; however, other uses of these funds are political realities that will not change. For example, using some of these funds for affordable housing will continue and maybe be increased. 01:22:36 Jonathan Cole: Oops: @Rónán Selby-Curran 01:22:53 Rónán Selby-Curran: Oh. Okay. That’s okay. 01:23:30 Rónán Selby-Curran: @Jonathan Cole is that because Brightline is privately funded? 01:24:04 Selden Prentice: Stephanie: There is concern that the dairy digesters combined with the LCFS creates incentives to increase herd size, prop up the gas industry, create pollution for neighboring communities, and more. Here’s another article: https://foe.org/resources/biogas-or-bull/ 01:24:05 Meghan Atallah: @Dan Kalb - so true 01:25:24 muriel strand: doing things the biological way is generally going to be cheaper and easier than tech ways and biology is self-winding 01:26:55 Asha Sharma: State incentives for diary digesters is a major environmental justice concern for the communities that we work with in the Central Valley. More information about our lawsuit here: https://leadershipcounsel.org/groups-sue-carb-over-environmental-impacts-of-flagship-climate-program/ 01:27:08 Asha Sharma: Further info: https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/policy-regulation/california-could-lock-in-disastrous-dairy-methane-rules-advocates-warn 01:27:24 Selden Prentice: Yes, Asha! Totally agree! 01:27:55 Selden Prentice: Good luck on the lawsuit. 01:28:03 Jonathan Cole: @Rónán Selby-Curran: Yes, it’s privately funded and not provided for in SB 862 (2014). 01:30:33 Andrea Leon-Grossmann: This report on digesters is great, and it includes a section on why we should not include digesters in carbon markets: https://foodandwaterwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/ib_1611_manure-digesters-web.pdf 01:31:04 Sarah Mehrabani: curious if there are similar concerns over the biomethane from municipal sewage sludge digestors? 01:31:35 Beverly DesChaux: CEOs in the fossil fuel industry must be belly laughing at what we are spending our time on as they keep polluting and profiting!!! 01:33:37 Stephanie McGreevy: Thank you!! 01:34:11 Selden Prentice: Sarah — I would say there are still concerns in the municipal context but less so because until we stop having waste — we need to address the methane coming from that waste. But in the dairy context, we can drastically reduce the methane if farmers reduce herd size and use alternative manure management. We should n’t be creating incentives for farmers to actually increase herd size by paying for them to use digesters. 01:34:31 Asha Sharma: One more great report on calculating the costs and climate impacts of dairy digesters: https://www.centerforfoodsafety.org/files/waste-stream-to-revenue-stream_final_35719.pdf 01:34:46 Beverly DesChaux: quoting Alice in Wonderland: running as fast as we can to stay in the same place. Humans are going to extinct ourselves, just a matter of sooner or later 01:34:56 Sarah Mehrabani: @Selden Prentice, Thank you 01:35:02 The Climate Center: For more on Dallas' presentation, please visit this link - https://www.rff.org/publications/issue-briefs/harnessing-carbon-value-to-lower-costs-in-california/ 01:35:29 The Climate Center: https://theclimatecenter.org/about/people/danny-cullenward-2/ 01:37:22 Ken Johnson: I think Dallas' discussion about the "waterbed effect" answered my question about whether GGRF-funded GHG reductions in capped sectors affect on statewide emissions. 01:37:58 Alice Sung: Is it really humans that will extinct ourselves? Or a certain FEW humans behind powerful corporations and regimes? 01:38:55 Dan Kalb: Higher prices mean that more of the C-and-T funds would have to be allocated to rebates and subsidies for low and middle-income residents. This is a political reality. 01:41:06 muriel strand: not sure it’s a great idea to insulate lower-income folks from energy prices. what’s our destination? 01:41:08 muriel strand: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333581837_Is_it_true_that_'Small_Is_Beautiful' 01:41:43 Alex Nikolai: Carbon based/unsustainable societies are also a relatively new phenomenon in the scope of human history. We can go back to cultures that live symbiotically with the planet. The question is how much damage to the planet do we do before we change (or have no choice to change). I agree that this has also been primarily driven by a concentration portion of people. 01:46:23 The Climate Center: For more information, please see these links: - https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2024-11/Final%20EJAC%20Cap-and-Trade%20Resolution%20November%202024.pdf - https://sbud.senate.ca.gov/sites/sbud.senate.ca.gov/files/CVAQ%20Handout%20for%20Senate%20Cap%20%20Trade%20Rulemaking%20Hearing_2.13.2024_.pdf 01:50:17 Maya Inigo-Anderson: What are the preferred solutions to reduce unintended impacts of the program on environmental justice communities you are hearing from legislators and the Governor's Office? 01:53:43 Beverly DesChaux: wouldn't want to "frustrate" the fossil fuel industry! I am left so frustrated 01:54:09 John Kindred: Today in the news they said part of it will be ready for the 2028 Olympics. 01:54:38 John Kindred: To Los Angeles, CA 01:55:06 John Kindred: Someone should look into this 01:55:19 Beverly DesChaux: nor the dairy industry 01:55:41 Rónán Selby-Curran: @John Kindred is that a reference to Brightline, West, CAHSR or the High Desert Corridor? 01:55:58 Rónán Selby-Curran: *Brightline 01:56:17 helen kerstein: Must have been Brightline. California high-speed rail is no where near getting to LA (see https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Schedule-Engagement-Report-FINAL-A11Y.pdf) 01:56:32 Jonathan Cole: Brightline West was originally planned to be ready for the Olympics, but now projects start of service no sooner than December 2028. 01:57:24 Rónán Selby-Curran: Indeed. Brightline West pre-construction work is underway, but actual construction still has not begun from my knowledge. 01:57:36 Jonathan Cole: It’s supposed to start later this year. 01:58:00 Dan Kalb: Legislative re-authorization of C-and-T likely will get bogged down in negotiations with the Oil industry (i.e. WSPA). Because a 2/3 vote is needed, the Oil folks will demand concessions and they have many (too many) allies in the Legislature. However, our side has leverage as well. Without C-and-T, the alternative is more direct regulation—which industry hates. It’s going to be a multi-layered process. Curious who in the Administration will be taking the lead in this negotiation process. 01:58:29 Kip Lipper: Given that direct emission reduction measures are the key drivers of GHG reduction, and that C&T is really more of a revenue program (the caps are meaningless), why not reform the program to be more of a carbon tax approach that provides predicatable revenues and can be securitized for even more revenue? 01:58:48 Cynthia Mahoney: Polluters Pay is a great alternative to having electric ratepayers bear the cost of wildfire mitigation 02:00:08 Sahm Sahm: Subsidizing high electric rates fails to address the unwarranted IOU revenues, and instead masks those costs. GGRF revenues should better be spent helping low income customers reduce their bills through efficiency. 02:00:14 Greg Karras: Good Q Kip. Thanks? 02:00:17 Maya Inigo-Anderson: Absolutely, Cynthia! I think we also need to work towards greater utility cost subsidies for low-income Californians specifically. The existing programs have not prevented a major "energy burden" for low-income consumers. 02:01:04 Elisabeth Green: The ultimate cost to humanity is approaching $100,000 per ton of carbon. The ultimate cost of carbon. Archer, Kite and Lusk, Climactic Change, July 15, 2020. DOI: 10.1007/s10584-020-02785-4 University of Chicago news. 02:04:04 Rónán Selby-Curran: Thank you. 02:04:04 Elisabeth Green: I think the cap-and-trade program should be replaced by the Emissions Token Network at https://emissions-test.opentaps.org/request and would like support in suggesting so at this panel discussion because a panelist "provided technical support in the design of carbon dioxide emissions trading programs". Free event https://click.everyaction.com/k/102002193/527769514/-1866955327 02:04:11 Kip Lipper: Mr Burrow might want to talk to someone who actually works in the legislature before propounding on its views. 02:04:17 The Climate Center: Call to Action - https://theclimatecenter.org/fossil-fuels/tell-california-leaders-no-more-giveaways-for-big-oil-through-cap-and-trade/ 02:04:23 The Climate Center: Our next webinar - https://theclimatecenter.org/events/creating-accountability-for-carbon-removal-through-responsible-measurement/ 02:04:27 Kathy Albury: I hope the chat can be sent out with the recording. 02:04:33 The Climate Center: It will be